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  1. #21
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    I would imagine that the right wing football mobs, who must number thousands particularly in the East, must be rubbing their hands with excitement. At the end of the day Merkel has been conned, it was obvious to everyone that trains full of young men arriving in Germany was a recipe for disaster, a large section of them wont integrate and will push for the Koran to be the law of the land. The genuine refugees must be fucking disgusted with the way it's turning out.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Paul's Avatar
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    Senior Member karlsruhe hoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number 8 View Post
    I would imagine that the right wing football mobs, who must number thousands particularly in the East, must be rubbing their hands with excitement.


    Definitely. Crowds of cunts tanked up on beer and going to games could run into a few foreigners in train stations along the way and batter them. They would definitely think they could get away with it, because since Cologne, there is a vague stench of "no holds barred" in the air. Anything is possible. Thankfully though, German football is still on the winter break, so there is two weeks time for things to calm down.


    Quote Originally Posted by number 8 View Post
    At the end of the day Merkel has been conned, it was obvious to everyone that trains full of young men arriving in Germany was a recipe for disaster


    Mistakes were made, but it is hard to fault Merkel. While many other countries (Ireland included) just sat on their hands, Germany said "Fuck it, we have to take them in from the cold and worry about the finer details later." People were prepared for hassle alright – but not to the degree of what happened. Frankly – I would fuck all the spoofers from Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, India and Pakistan out immediately. No questions asked. It has to be done for the sake not only of Germany – but for the sake of the genuine refugees, who will otherwise face the backlash.


    Quote Originally Posted by number 8 View Post
    ..... and will push for the Koran to be the law of the land.


    Never in a million years. Nobody has any problem with their religion, but as soon as they start pushing agendas or starting to form their own political parties or whatever, they will be out on their ear. Absolutely nothing wrong with declaring in a constitution that a country is essentially Christian. Because the reverse is exactly what happens in their countries.


    Quote Originally Posted by number 8 View Post
    The genuine refugees must be fucking disgusted with the way it's turning out.


    Absolutely. Though maybe less surprised. Because they were dealing with the fucking arseholes for their entire journey up through Europe. Parents trying to protect their kids – while the arseholes grabbed all the food, jumped all the queues and constantly started aggro with police, security and bus and train staff.

    I was just out shopping when a refugee and his young son walked into the supermarket. The sheer delight on their faces at something so simple as going into a fully-stocked, modern supermarket without bombs raining around their heads was a joy to behold. Those are the people that deserve help. Not the fucking spoofers.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlsruhe hoop View Post
    Absolutely nothing wrong with declaring in a constitution that a country is essentially Christian. Because the reverse is exactly what happens in their countries.
    Agree with your overall, but saying "it's what happens in their countries" isn't a good guide. Their countries are mostly theocratic shitholes.

  5. #25
    Senior Member karlsruhe hoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whimpersnap View Post
    Agree with your overall, but saying "it's what happens in their countries" isn't a good guide. Their countries are mostly theocratic shitholes.
    Oh I know that. I'm just saying that the very people who might try and push an agenda in Germany are the very ones that would throw you in jail for 30 years if you tried the same thing in their countries.

    So if it is a tactic that would keep them in check, then why not use it.

    On a related note – it is almost hilarious that the arseholes causing trouble in Cologne and elsewhere are doing so because of the freedom that Germany affords them. You would have thought they would be so delighted to have fled countries where there is little or no freedom that they might have a bit of cop on.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Foghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Where did I say these people should not be allowed live like humans?? Fundamentally I probably agree with you, just think we already have a migration issue in the country and the importation of migrants should be managed better in general would be my view, Personally think we are vulnerable as a nation with regards Sham colleges,Sham marriages and lax borders around Europe to people who should not be allowed to reside here.

    Think this is to provide cheap labour to business and allow questionable work practises to be carried out at the expense of the quality of Irish life, Both parents having to work, No wage increases, Sunday Trade,poor hospital facilities, services etc etc etc

    The government's main concern seems to be to keep the till ringing with tax at the expense of quality of life(Irony being the future pension burden on the sate), they seem to mis manage anything under their remit and the importation of Syrian Migrants(Pakastani?bangladeshi etc etc?) will have huge financial costs for the taxpayer.

    Integration of migrants as well as proper vetting would be my preference. Kids first etc, looking at Calais,Paris and Cologne it's clear these people are really in turmoil. But our health system, Housing system and Homeless including drug situation is already out of control.

    Being yes people to Merkel is not the right way and her decision to break all rules shows that this EU is not equal and that we have lost all power of being a republic even like the banking fiasco if it is unsuitable or unfair. Not really comfortable with what suits Germany is what should be implemented here would prefer to be masters of our own destiny but am also realistic to realise the financial benefit of EU membership is also a key factor. The current model is a negative on Ireland although for a long time was heavily in our favour with regards funding I accept, but should we hang around for the negatives?

    The lisbon treaty has changed everything and the solutions to this issue will be very hard to find.

    Regarding this issue on the points made by RTID I believe it's different as in what Australia/US allowed to happen,this was to their benefit, labour required to fuel economic growth, if we have same opportunities then we should import also, but these will be a burden on the state imo both financially and culturally as in the issues will remain amongst the factions living here and will become Irish issues potentially. These migrants are likely to be a burden on the state, I would prefer to invest in the problems we have currently rather than import new problems.

    Should the wealthy neighbour's closer to Syria not be these people's destination and if not why Not? Why do these people not want to stay and fight for their country?

    Finally Foghorn I enjoy English football and post in appropriate section not sure how it's relevant to this topic and please don't claim to know my character as I am very glad to say I have no idea who you are and hope that remains that way forevermore.
    This reply has a lot more thought in it and it stands up in a debate. Its the flippant throwaway remarks in your OP that gets to me. Like KH says, let them in or at least give them a path out of the misery that once was their peaceful home. I realize our housing, education and health systems are in an awful state but pales in comparison to the misery these people have been put through so we can fit them in.

    Turkey and Lebanon have taken the overwhelming majority of these people and are a lot less well of than European countries but by and large have done their part. Its up to us to do ours.

    Paul, I too enjoy English football, but again one flippant comment annoyed me in the backdrop to your detailed analysis of all things LFC. I felt the Syrian issue deserved more than your OP gave, the debate here shows it does. Finally I don't claim to know your character, all I can do is take my view from your expressed opinion which I thought and still think was a poor outlook to have for a civilization. My name is Al, I'm 33 and have 2 kids, I'm fairly sound and I have sympathies towards the plight the whole region finds itself in at the moment, I don't think any of that should rule me out from yourself ever knowing me but if it does, so be it....

    Koh
    The Hoops are having a "porty"

  7. #27
    Senior Member Paul's Avatar
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    Can we fit them in? Should we fit them in? My opinion is it's a pandora box we are getting involved with.

    Kh your comments are naive, if these people are let in of course they will mobilise under the rules of the hosts to seek what's best for their interests(Politically). You are foolish to think otherwise?

    No worries Al my comment was to put context on your character analysis. We are all Rover's fans and that puts you on a high pedestal in my eyes to start with.
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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Can we fit them in? Should we fit them in? My opinion is it's a pandora box we are getting involved with.

    Kh your comments are naive, if these people are let in of course they will mobilise under the rules of the hosts to seek what's best for their interests(Politically). You are foolish to think otherwise?

    No worries Al my comment was to put context on your character analysis. We are all Rover's fans and that puts you on a high pedestal in my eyes to start with.
    Course we can fit them in, it's akin to a family of 4 opening the front door and saying no room in here when the very act of taking them in saves lives, by putting them up in the kitchen until a more permenant roof is found. Ok once they cross the border from Syria they are safe from conscription, torture or death but that would mean them living in Turkey or Lebanon in a refugee camp with no prospect of any dignity or life. So they move past Turkey to Europe. The vast majority are well educated. We took thousands of them during the boom and while we won't get to boom times we are on a positive bounce with a recovery of skilled jobs being created steadily.

    It's Ireland, we don't get things right generally but where we're world leaders is in our charitable spirit. By no means copy what Germany did and allow tens of thousands in but let's do our fair share.

    When the Irish emigrated we massed up in political terms also culminating in JFK in the White House, if they followed our example any democratic movement would be welcome. I can't see any political movement trying to bring in the Koran to our society would fly.

    Koh
    The Hoops are having a "porty"

  10. #29
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    We would be insane to let in large number of Syrian refugees into this country after Paris and Cologne.

    There are nearly 10 million displaced people inside and outside Syria. Can they all come to Europe? Do we know how many of them have fought with jihadi groups? Can we absorb tens or hundreds of thousands of unemployed young males from an alien culture? No we can not.

  11. #30
    Senior Member Frank O'Neill's Avatar
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    Well, the bomb in Istanbul pulled the plug on me going there. The missus isn't having any of it and I can't disagree as I'm a natural coward. That shit can happen anywhere and at any time, but the fact that Turkey borders Syria would suggest that the worst is yet to come, especially on the back of what happened in Ankara. Blimey. It's starting to look like a spiral.

    Personally, I've no problem with people coming to Ireland for a new life. Just like the people already here (both Irish and non-Irish), some are good, most are alright, and a few bad eggs make everyone else look shite. Sure, look at Rovers: the true hardcore are amazing, most fans are okay, while a small minority are sociopathic arseholes we could do without. We're a microcosm of life.

    Most immigrants just want to build decent, law-abiding lives for themselves and their families - they want to fit in, if allowed. I've more of a problem with their kids playing GAA games and being taken in by that bullshit than being muslims, because no muslim organisation ever tried to screw us over Tallaght like the GAA did. Give me the Koran over Croker any day.

    I remember how the immigrant Irish were scapegoated and attacked in Britain during the 1970s because of what the IRA got up to, and compare that to people who have moved from the Middle East to Europe. Most people just want to try to live ordinary and modest lives and the religion they were brought up in tends to play a moderate and increasingly irrelevant part in their lives when they come to Europe.

    That's because they ultimately realise that all religion is bollocks.
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  13. #31
    Senior Member karlsruhe hoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mpande View Post
    We would be insane to let in large number of Syrian refugees into this country after Paris and Cologne.
    We? Who's the we? Ireland is letting in a handful and letting everyone else take care of the rest. So you should be alright.

  14. #32
    Senior Member karlsruhe hoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    KH your comments are naive, if these people are let in of course they will mobilise under the rules of the hosts to seek what's best for their interests (Politically). You are foolish to think otherwise
    Scaremongering. Why does everyone always think the worst? There are around 2.5 million Turks in Germany and they haven't "mobilized". There are always a few radical headcases everywhere – but most people just laugh at them. Oh – and the head of The Greens in Germany is turkish. And he's extremely popular among the turkish population.

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    Senior Member karlsruhe hoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank O'Neill View Post
    Well, the bomb in Istanbul pulled the plug on me going there. The missus isn't having any of it and I can't disagree as I'm a natural coward. That shit can happen anywhere and at any time, but the fact that Turkey borders Syria would suggest that the worst is yet to come, especially on the back of what happened in Ankara. Blimey. It's starting to look like a spiral.

    Personally, I've no problem with people coming to Ireland for a new life. Just like the people already here (both Irish and non-Irish), some are good, most are alright, and a few bad eggs make everyone else look shite. Sure, look at Rovers: the true hardcore are amazing, most fans are okay, while a small minority are sociopathic arseholes we could do without. We're a microcosm of life.

    Most immigrants just want to build decent, law-abiding lives for themselves and their families - they want to fit in, if allowed. I've more of a problem with their kids playing GAA games and being taken in by that bullshit than being muslims, because no muslim organisation ever tried to screw us over Tallaght like the GAA did. Give me the Koran over Croker any day.

    I remember how the immigrant Irish were scapegoated and attacked in Britain during the 1970s because of what the IRA got up to, and compare that to people who have moved from the Middle East to Europe. Most people just want to try to live ordinary and modest lives and the religion they were brought up in tends to play a moderate and increasingly irrelevant part in their lives when they come to Europe.

    That's because they ultimately realise that all religion is bollocks.
    It's actually hilarious how people can twist language to suit themselves in any given situation. People talk about "illegal immigrants" coming to Europe. But it turns out that the 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants in the U.S. are actually merely "undocumented". That sounds like a kind of bureaucratic oversight. Why are they allegedly different??? Wouldn't be because they are white, would it???

    So Ireland doesn't want any asylum seekers? Grand. Now could the U.S. please expel the 50,000 Irish spoofers.
    Last edited by karlsruhe hoop; 14-01-16 at 10:18.

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  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    Can we fit them in?.
    How many are gonna be put into the Leprechaun President's place I wonder? We all know the answer to that. It's like the modular homes. Why are certain areas being targeted for these and not others? For all the cheerleaders for these things all I can say is yes no problem. But after you have taken the first ones in or have the first modular home beside yours.

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    Senior Member karlsruhe hoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    How many are gonna be put into the Leprechaun President's place I wonder? We all know the answer to that. It's like the modular homes. Why are certain areas being targeted for these and not others? For all the cheerleaders for these things all I can say is yes no problem. But after you have taken the first ones in or have the first modular home beside yours.
    Don't understand why it should be regarded as a negative. Syrian asylum seekers now in my village and in all the surrounding villages. Haven't heard a single person say anything negative about them at all. I'd rather have 50 Syrian families here in the village than one traveller family*.




    * That's because of loads of stuff that both myself and my family have experienced over the years – and not simply some unfounded prejudice.
    Last edited by karlsruhe hoop; 14-01-16 at 11:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karlsruhe hoop View Post
    Don't understand why it should be regarded as a negative. Syrian asylum seekers now in my village and in all the surrounding villages. Haven't heard a single person say anything negative about them at all. I'd rather have 50 Syrian families here in the village than one traveller family*.




    * That's because of loads of stuff that both myself and my family have experienced over the years – and not simply some unfounded prejudice.
    My point isn't that I or nobody else doesn't want them. It's that the people who do all the cheerleading for this are the same ones who will want them but not beside themselves. How many refugees will be put into the many empty rooms in the Phoenix Park, or Archbishop Martin's mansion, or places like Foxrock or Ballsbridge? No it'll be a case of lets take them yeah but put them in working class areas that are already overcrowded with little or no police protection. It's the same for the modular homes. Is it the same in Germany?

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    Senior Member karlsruhe hoop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Is it the same in Germany?
    As far as I can make out, the asylum seekers are accommodated pretty much everywhere with little or no nimbyism. Will they be accommodated on the front lawn of the Bundestag? Well, probably not. But then nobody in Germany would want that anyway. Because it’s daft.

    Around where I live (and I assume everywhere else) there were (and are) on-going information evenings where the ins and outs were explained to everybody (partly to allay fears).

    These evenings did NOT have the purpose of people being allowed to object. People were told where the accommodation was going to be and that was that.

    But that's two major differences in Germany:
    1. You can almost always be sure that decisions have been made after copious thought and planning by the appointed experts – and aren't the result of some stupid political shenanigans.
    2. Nimbyism isn't really tolerated (because of 1.)

  21. #38
    Member Ste's Avatar
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    Europe should be more like Australia when it comes to letting anyone in

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    Quote Originally Posted by karlsruhe hoop View Post
    We? Who's the we? Ireland is letting in a handful and letting everyone else take care of the rest. So you should be alright.
    Good.

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    Senior Member Paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlsruhe hoop View Post
    It's actually hilarious how people can twist language to suit themselves in any given situation. People talk about "illegal immigrants" coming to Europe. But it turns out that the 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants in the U.S. are actually merely "undocumented". That sounds like a kind of bureaucratic oversight. Why are they allegedly different??? Wouldn't be because they are white, would it???

    So Ireland doesn't want any asylum seekers? Grand. Now could the U.S. please expel the 50,000 Irish spoofers.
    As an immigrant albeit economic(Presume your Irish,apologies if not?) should you not be more symptomatic? Economic migration is different in that if a country is willing to employ then they not the people benefit more. Germany getting your tax not Ireland for example?

    Would imagine the 50000 you speak about earn a lot of bucks for uncle sam. Interestingly Ireland would benefit from their return, well so says the likes of David mcWilliams but that's another story.
    Last edited by Paul; 14-01-16 at 17:57.
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