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  1. #41
    Senior Member NY Hoop's Avatar
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    Podge on the mark yesterday again:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19447860



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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Hoop View Post
    Podge on the mark yesterday again:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19447860
    Good to see Podge score again but unfortunately Sheppard gets only 5 minutes of action for the second game in a row. What a waste of a talent.

  3. #43
    Senior Member AlanHX's Avatar
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    When Saturday Comes reposted their post Hillborough Editorial

    http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1152-...ster-editorial

    Post-Hillsborough disaster editorial
    From WSC 28, June 1989

    12 September ~ Today saw the release of an independent report into previously unseen documents relating to the Hillsborough disaster of 1989. Our editorial in the first edition after the tragedy reflected on the perception of football fans

    Like you, we have read a hell of a lot about Hillsborough over the last couple of weeks. We quickly reached saturation point, partly because there are a limited number of ways in which the same points can be made without becoming repetitious and partly because so many stupid things have been said.

    One thing deserves to be reiterated, however. The deaths of 90 people (*) at a football ground in Sheffield were not just another tragic accident. Instead, they were a predictable consequence of the fact that the people who run English football have stumbled from one crisis to another without evolving a coherent, consistent policy to deal with any specific problem.

    The rise to public prominence of the FSA and the spread of the independent magazines has encouraged the belief that supporters might finally get the opportunity to wield some influence on the way football is administered in this country. An incident such as this demonstrates both the urgent need for such a development and the amount of work that still needs to be done.

    Slow progress is being made but nothing has really changed. The individuals who run football clubs with, in many cases, breathtaking incompetence, continue to manifest total disdain for football fans. Periodically, the cast-list is shaken up — new additions to the familiar clutch of pompous businessmen seeking personal aggrandisement — but the attitudes are as entrenched as ever. The same policemen adopt the same aggressive attitude to football, insisting that it should be treated as a public order problem rather than a form of entertainment. The same prejudice is attached to all football fans, deemed to be passive accomplices to the sociopathic minority.

    The police see us as a mass entity, fuelled by drink and a single-minded resolve to wreak havoc by destroying property and attacking one another with murderous intent. Containment and damage limitation is at the core of the police strategy. Fans are treated with the utmost disrespect. We are herded, cajoled, pushed, and corralled into cramped spaces, and expected to submit passively to every new indignity.

    The implication is that “normal” people need to be protected from the football fan. But we are normal people. “The Football Fan” is not an easily defined social stereotype, whatever the tabloid cartoonists may choose to believe. All manner of people go to football matches. A few of them are intent on unleashing aggressive instincts which are also manifested in wine bars on a Saturday night or in tourist hotels on the Costa Del Sol. Thuggish behaviour is rarely reported in any detail when it can't be directly linked to a football match.

    Football is being made the scapegoat for a society brutalised over the last decade. Yet, a proportion of law officers are afflicted with the same oafish sensibility that is exhibited by a minority of fans. Since this magazine first appeared, we have regularly received letters complaining about specific police actions. The correspondence has come from a broad spectrum of our readership and builds up into a weighty indictment of general policing policy at football matches over the last three years. A large proportion of the Liverpool supporters who angrily spoke out against the police tactics at Hillsborough will have had previous bad experiences which served to further fuel their sense of grievance. Fans and the police have developed a prejudiced view of one another that has served only to create barriers that are of as much significance as the perimeter fencing.

    Then there are the administrators. Their attitude is one of utter incomprehension and cowardice. They don't stick up for football supporters because they basically neither understand nor like them. The FA have abdicated any responsibility for the events of Hillsborough in typical fashion. Faced with crisis and degeneration, they have failed to take positive steps to resuscitate the game. They have obstructed change where it was proposed by the powerless (the fans) but prostrated themselves before a political establishment that would be quite happy to see the game destroyed.

    Complaints about safety and comfort were ignored because they were being made by supporters. Official action will be taken now, because the same points previously raised by fans are now being made by the government and the media. Their stupidity and cowardice over a long period of time allowed Hillsborough to happen.

    Symptomatic of their paralysis is the frequency with which a certain phrase crops up in their public pronouncements. We are informed, with wearying regularity, that football needs to "put its house in order'". This is, of course, a laughably imprecise phrase, intended to imply a commitment to resolute action. Needless to say, it means absolutely nothing.

    Clubs have to accept a proportion of the blame. They own the fences and turnstiles that helped to cause the disaster. Sheffield Wednesday officials seemed to believe that, in an emergency, it would be possible to evacuate a large number of people thorough a tiny gate in the perimeter fencing. They and their colleagues at other League grounds across the country insult loyal, put-upon customers with the pathetic standard of amenities on offer. They have failed to develop long-term strategies that rely on anything beyond glib slogans about families and the importance of sponsors. The executive box holders get central heating and smoked glass but the huddled majority don't deserve even an unobstructed view and a roof.

    There is very little common sense applied to football. In no other area of life is the victim treated with as much disrespect as the perpetrator, nor the majority held to be guilty of the crimes perpetrated by a minority.

    But, ultimately, what happens to us doesn't matter. It is our own fault for being football fans. That is why MPs always ignored pleas from supporters' organisations seeking to prevent the sort of disaster that has become a reality. Whatever they may say, few politicians gave any indication that they cared about football fans before Hillsborough happened. Suddenly everyone knows the answer. A fortnight ago, they didn't even hear the question.

    It didn't take very long for Hillsborough to become our fault. Indeed, initial reports pinned blame on supporters who were believed to have broken down a gate. Later, as the analysts set to work, blame was heaped upon the large number of fans who arrived without tickets. Then the police's press department piped up, revealing that many were drunk and generally doing all the things that fans are famous for. Had the television cameras not been present to record the disaster as it unfolded, many people would have unquestioningly accepted the garbage that has been pumped out by some of the tabloid hacks.

    Fans have been both the prophesiers and the victims of Hillsborough, but who believes that they will be invited to play an active part in solving the problems that it highlighted? We will be obliged to meekly accept the remedy offered. Standing has been proved to be bad for us, so we must sit. Stadiums in urban areas are, without exception. unsafe places for large numbers of people to congregate, so, for the common good, all teams will eventually be required set up home on industrial estates in the middle of nowhere. Better still, we are to pay for the changes that are required, despite the huge burdens already endured and the fact that the government takes vast sums of money from the game.

    By the time this issue appears, the deaths of those Liverpool fans will have become just another "great story" disgorged by a media which revelled in one of the few disasters that happened live in front of the world's press. After a couple of weeks, there isn't much mileage to be derived from sombre proclamations that "It must never be allowed to happen again".

    Of course, it will be allowed to happen again. The ID Cards bill with provisions that almost guarantee that such a tragedy will be repeated is to be pushed through nonetheless. No surprise there. Even after the Zeebrugge sinking, dangerous ferries are sailing the Channel, and on the London Underground, safety of passengers takes primacy only over ensuring that the chocolate machines are functioning adequately.

    Some football officials smugly assert that such a disaster couldn't happen at their clubs. What they really mean is that now it has happened to someone else, odds are that it won't recur for a little while. It is less the Safety of Sports Grounds, but, rather, the Law of Averages that they see as adequate protection for their customers.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member AlanHX's Avatar
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    Continued.....

    Disasters are happening so regularly now that we have developed a meaningless set of pseudo-religious rituals to acknowledge them. As has been clear for a long time, no disaster is worthy of the name until leading religious and political figures are officially informed and have given suitably trite quotes to the press. This immediate reaction is followed by The Visit. The seniority of the visitor is determined by media interest and death toll, and is, of course, performed primarily for the benefit of those clicking cameras. Survivors' stories are served up in tandem with chilling reminders of how easily death can take any of us.

    All such rituals, crassly inappropriate in the main because they are so formularised, are supposed to make us feel that a mixture of fate and circumstance was ultimately to blame.

    The key ritual of this organised disinformation is an inquiry. “Experts” are called forth (in this instance, few people other than football fans have any relevant expertise to offer). After accusations are made and refuted, a report is produced and the cheapest and most politically expedient bits form part of a new law. The rest is made voluntary. Identification of the real culprits is lost amid desperate, scurrying attempts to avoid blame.

    The same people who indignantly call for the fences to be torn down now are the same ones who demanded that they should be put up in the first place. Thanks were duly said for there not having been any perimeter fences at Bradford, but no long-term lessons were learned from that fire. Superficial responses were the order of the day.

    This is why it isn't all that surprising that the government wants to continue with the dangerous ID cards. It has weathered a sufficient number of crises to know that concern passes very quickly. They obviously reason that all will run smoothly if they can only hang on until something else is on the front pages. However, the ham-fisted attempts to bolster prejudices against football fans through the front pages of the Sun has rather backfired this time.

    Once more, everyone is offering opinions on the game and its followers. Can it ever be the same again? Should it continue at all? A number of journalists have trotted out their "I'll never go again" line, much as they did after Heysel. It seems that any measure is justifiable in the wake of Hillsborough and some sort of punishment seems to be the accepted solution. The prime minister has no expertise to offer in this situation. She is blindly determined to act, and to be seen to act in accordance with her public image. She has nothing to say and yet remains shrilly determined to emphasise the fact.

    Most of what we have outlined here has been said before. Some of it is repetitious, because football fans have gone on at considerable length in the past about most of these issues. To no avail. No one listens. Perhaps they won't listen now, because after all, we are only supporters. We derive no pleasure from saying any of this. We would much rather crawl into a corner and forget about football for a few weeks, but that isn't possible.

    (*) This was the death toll at the time of writing
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  5. #45
    Senior Member mypost's Avatar
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  6. #46
    Senior Member dk74's Avatar
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    Excellent piece from Tony Evans in today's Times. A message that will resonate with Hoops who travel away from home.


    Supporters need to take responsibility of ending expect and accept culture

    Almost every football supporter who follows their team away from home has a horror story to tell about policing and stewarding. Plenty of fans who never leave the comfort of their home stadium have ugly tales, too.

    Even in the wake of the Hillsborough Independent Panel (HIP) report, which showed in stark detail the contempt in which football’s paying customers were held two decades ago, there have been incidents that indicate little has changed.

    Last month, Manchester City supporters in Madrid were subjected to brutal treatment by the local riot police. The mobile-phone video footage that emerged appeared to show a massive over-reaction by Spanish policemen.

    What sparked the bout of violence was not recorded, but it is hard to conceive what might have been so serious as to provoke such random use of batons.
    This week, Everton fans had a vicious encounter with the West Yorkshire Police at Elland Road. Seven arrests were made after the fans expressed their contempt for the local force by chanting “murderers” and “justice for the 96”. Norman Bettison, who led the police propaganda unit after Hillsborough, is chief constable of the West Yorkshire force and the match was an emotional flashpoint for both sides. However, even inside the prism of the reaction to the HIP report, this bout of violence should have shocked the public. Instead, events at Elland Road made very little impact on the nation’s consciousness.
    Football fans are still feared and mistrusted by a large proportion of the nation — including the authorities and the clubs they support. It is largely irrational. Arrests at football are at a record low — just over 3,000 for all English and Welsh games in 2010-11, a tiny proportion of the crowds who flock to the grounds. Yet a perception that fans are rowdy remains. Supporters themselves must take a hefty measure of the blame for this state of mind.

    That is not because they are hooligans or troublemakers. It is because they have not caused enough trouble for those who demean and disrespect them.

    There is an “expect and accept” culture among supporters. They expect to be herded around, denied food and drink and be stripped of their civil liberties for the “crime” of watching football. They complain to each other and fail to challenge the authorities and hold them to account. They effectively accept the treatment. While the Everton messageboards were in uproar after the Leeds incident with tales of disproportionate police harshness from police and stewards, Amanda Jacks, a caseworker for the Football Supporters’ Federation (FSF) who deals with these sorts of problems and liaises with police and clubs, received just a single complaint.

    The only way fans will be treated rationally and reasonably is where they point out mistreatment to the authorities. Collectively, they must challenge those who imagine the modern matchgoer as a throwback to the 1970s and 80s stereotype.

    It is not all negative. There have been huge advances, too. The West Midlands Police — traditionally a force with a reputation for heavy-handedness — has undergone a sea-change in attitude. They encourage their officers to see a match as a community event rather than a public order crisis. The South Yorkshire force is also keen to repair some of the damage of the past by taking a similar stance.

    Ironically, the mindset of the police seems easier to change than that of the clubs. What other business has so little interest in the comfort of its customers? At what other public entertainment would they not only train CCTV cameras on the audience for the duration of the event but back it up with squads of stewards staring at spectators for the entire performance?

    At the theatre, ushers are there to help, to answer questions and provide a welcome. At football, many stewards are imbued with suspicion and often radiate antagonism. A smile and a welcome at a football ground? They are rarer than a Stewart Downing assist.

    Complaining does work. After Manchester United fans were mistreated on an away trip to Marseilles in the Champions League last year, more than 50 contacted the FSF, which collated the evidence and sent it to the FA, Uefa and the French authorities. Eight months later, Arsenal went to the Stade Vélodrome and their supporters had a very different experience. Uefa was very keen that the situation would not be repeated and worked with the club and police to avoid another confrontation.

    Once it was difficult to complain and obtain evidence of maltreatment and misbehaviour. Now, with the advent of social media and the ability to film incidents on mobile phones, there are fewer excuses. As much as the culture of the clubs and police needs to change, so does the attitude of the fan.
    Do not expect to be treated like a convict. Do not accept poor treatment.

    Put the horror stories to those who can do something about it. Fans will be called to account quickly enough if they cause trouble. Supporters must make sure the same level of accountability exists when they are on the receiving end.


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    London Orient name proposed by Leyton Orient owner Barry Hearn

    Leyton Orient owner Barry Hearn plans to change the club's name to London Orient if its bid to ground-share the Olympic Stadium with West Ham succeeds.

    He said changing the League One club's name would be part of a "rebranding exercise" to link it with the city.

    "When you are looking for a new future, you need a new title," Hearn told BBC Sport.

    A decision on the successful Olympic Stadium tenants from four bidders is expected later this month.

    Orient and West Ham face competition from Intelligent Transport Services in association with Formula One, and UCFB College of Football Business.

    Hearn said Orient had undergone several name changes down the years, but admitted a switch would not be popular with all supporters.

    "There will always be opposition. You can't expect everyone to agree with us in a democracy," he said.

    "There isn't a team that's named after the capital. It's unique, the same as our little football club. It's a stepping stone to great things.

    "We need a new branding exercise. Leyton Orient has been there, Clapton Orient, Orient, there has been a few changes over the 130-year history."

    The owner believes the east London club, which had average attendances of 4,298 at Brisbane Road last season, could attract crowds of up to 27,000 at the Olympic Stadium through a series of ticket offers.

    "I think we have got to look at changing the face of Leyton Orient. The first thing is to change the name to London Orient, the second thing is to look at giving free season tickets to the under-18s in London and members of the armed forces," said Hearn.

    "Any new family that moves in to the area should get a free introductory season ticket for the whole family.

    "The lower tier capacity would be 27,000 and we are quite confident we can sell that out with our ticket incentive schemes and hopefully by then, a more successful team.

    "We need to appeal to a wider audience, we need to put a lot of money in to strengthen the squad which hopefully we will do to move up at least one division.

    "We need a new atmosphere about the place. We are little Leyton Orient, we don't want to miss out on our community service and renaming the club is the beginning of changing the whole attitude."

    Hearn has previously been critical of West Ham's plans, and the Hammers have indicated they do not want to ground-share with Orient.

    "West Ham would prefer to have the stadium on their own but that means one match a fortnight, and it needs to be busy. Orient playing alternate Saturdays just creates the vibrancy the Olympic Park needs," he said.

    He said the London Orient name is only likely to be used if the club moves to the Olympic Stadium.

    "If West Ham moved in there and we didn't, we're pretty sure we would go out of business so it could be called whatever if you like," he said.

  9. #48
    Underneath You Surreal Hamster's Avatar
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    Senior Member Whisper's Avatar
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    This is just absolutely disgraceful


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    Apparently the guy has been banned from football grounds before. Won't be long before he's arrested anyway.

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    Yeah apparently he had only finished an away game banning order 3 months ago because of throwing something at a disabled man. He's been identified by a lot of people on Facebook, now it's just a case of when the police find him.

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    Senior Member mypost's Avatar
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    And to think they were calling for fans to be banned after their game in Serbia a few days before.

    Of all the stadiums in England, that is the one goal in the one stadium where fences cannot be put behind it. They're just going to have to police fans better there in future.

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    Senior Member kd16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mypost View Post
    And to think they were calling for fans to be banned after their game in Serbia a few days before.
    Have to say I did find the whole thing amusing considering the Brits spent the entire week telling us how dangerous Serbia is, questioning whether it is safe to send teams there and calling for Serbs to be thrown out of Uefa for 10 years.

    Funnily enough the incident at Hillsbrough wasn't put on a 24 hour loop on Sky Sports News for a few days like the incidents in Belgrade

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    Senior Member mypost's Avatar
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    We went there last year, no trouble. Ireland went there more recently, no trouble. Other teams go to Serbia and come home without a bother. Why is it the English can't do likewise, not just in Serbia, but elsewhere in Europe?

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    So what happened last week at the U21 games was the fault of the English?

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    Senior Member kd16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbfc14 View Post
    So what happened last week at the U21 games was the fault of the English?
    No but their over the top reaction to it was ridiculous especially now in light of what happened on Friday. I didn't see the big bad Serbs throwing seats at English players, let alone physically attacking them

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    Sorry if i'm being stupid kd but whats that got to do with anything?
    its okay to racially abuse an Englishman cause some other Englishmen are dickheads?

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    Senior Member kd16's Avatar
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    No its the difference in the reactions to the two incidents is all I'm talking about. Belgrade is fearful, intimidating and dangerous and the English don't want to have to send teams there again until "something is done"

    However Hillsbrough was grand, just a few idiots spoiling the fun for everyone you know yourself. Not worth worrying about. Monkey chants from a few yobs warrant a death penalty for an entire nation yet the fans on Friday can sing about paeodophiles and murdered fans and thats ok cos its only a small minority

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    Senior Member NY Hoop's Avatar
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    Invade the pitch here and nothing happens.

    His solicitor: “He was absolutely disgusted by his own behaviour.” Yeah he looked distinictly unhappy leaving the pitch.

    Enjoy jail you scum:


    http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/soc...ck-571398.html

    Fan jailed for Kirkland attack


    22/10/2012 - 12:52:36
    A football fan was jailed for 16 weeks today after he admitted attacking a goalkeeper during a televised football match.

    Aaron Cawley, 21, from Cheltenham, pleaded guilty to assault and invading the pitch during Sheffield Wednesday’s home match against Leeds on Friday night.

    Cawley, who appeared at Sheffield Magistrates’ Court, was arrested after Wednesday keeper Chris Kirkland was pushed in the face during the game at Hillsborough.

    The incident was one of a number of ugly scenes at the Yorkshire derby, which ended in a 1-1 draw.
    Kirkland, who has played for England, was shoved to the ground moments after conceding an equaliser in the 76th minute.

    A man was clearly seen running from the Leeds fans onto the pitch and pushing Kirkland in the face before running back into the crowd.

    The incident was caught on camera by Sky Sports, which was broadcasting the game.

    Unemployed labourer Cawley stood in the glass-fronted dock wearing a blue T-shirt which left an ``LUFC'' tattoo clearly visible on his neck and a Leeds United club crest on his right arm.

    The court heard that he had been the subject of two football banning orders in the past, which he had breached four times.

    Despite living with his mother in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, he had supported Leeds United all his life and went to every game – home and away, a district judge was told.

    Prosecutor Paul Macaulay said Cawley told police he was so drunk he could not remember the incident, which has been seen by millions of TV viewers.

    District Judge Naomi Redhouse said she had not seen the footage and it was played for her in court today.

    Mr Macaulay said Cawley told officers he had drunk a number of cans of Stella Artois lager on Friday morning, followed by three-quarters of a litre of vodka - all before he got to Sheffield by train.

    Once in Sheffield, he had a further seven to 10 pints of cider, the court heard.

    District Judge Redhouse heard that Cawley, of Blenheim Square, Cheltenham, only realised what he had done when other people told him and then he saw himself clearly on TV.

    He emailed the police to say sorry and also emailed Sky Sports in the hope that his apology would be passed on to the two clubs and Kirkland.

    His solicitor, Elizabeth Anderton, tried to tell the judge that reports that her client had bragged about the incident in social networking sites were wrong. But District Judge Redhouse stopped her, saying she had not seen the reports and was not interested.

    Ms Anderton asked the district judge to accept that her client pushed Kirkland rather than slapped him.

    She said Cawley had shown a “great deal of regret and remorse”.

    “It’s certainly not something he would ordinarily do,” she said.

    The solicitor said that, as well as drinking a huge amount of alcohol, her client had also not eaten before the match.

    She said: “He was absolutely disgusted by his own behaviour.”

    Ms Anderton said Cawley had lived in the Cheltenham area all his life and had inherited a love of Leeds United from his father.

    She said her client hoped his apology has reached Kirkland and the two football clubs involved.

    District Judge Redhouse said she had no choice but to impose an immediate custodial sentence.

    She said a huge effort had been made to tackle hooliganism in football and “make football an event where there’s no violence and where families are happy to attend with children”.

    She said footballers were at matches as part of their employment and everyone has the right to be “protected from being assaulted by a stranger” at work.

    The district judge also noted that, while she had heard all the evidence about how much Cawley had to drink, she did not see any evidence of his drunkenness on the TV footage she had been shown.

    Friday’s match was marred by a hostile atmosphere between the two sets of fans, culminating in the incident involving Cawley and Kirkland.

    Wednesday manager Dave Jones – himself the subject of vile chants – urged Leeds fans after the game to clean up their act.

    Jones, who was cleared of child abuse allegations in 2000, was disgusted by some of the chants directed his way, adding: “I heard a guy on the radio say I get well paid and it’s football banter.

    “That’s not football banter, I’ve had that for 12 years off them (football fans).”

    The Football Association has said it will investigate events.

    There were five arrests for various offences including public order before and after the game, while three people were ejected from the ground and 12 were subject to dispersal orders.

    Later, Cawley returned to court where he was formally given a six-year football banning order.

    One of the conditions is for him to stay at least a mile away from football stadiums where Leeds United are playing on match days.

    He was handcuffed before being led from the dock.




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